Pig butchering is worse than just manipulating someone and taking their money. It leaves them with emotional anguish. Once their finances have been drained, they lose their financial security and they no longer trust people. Today’s guest is Erin West. Erin has been with the County of Santa Clara for 26 years and is a Deputy District Attorney. She specializes in cryptocurrency investigations and prosecutions.

• [0:46] - Erin shares her background and what her role is as a Deputy District Attorney in Santa Clara County.
• [3:20] - Five years ago, Erin found herself working on prosecutions regarding SIM swapping and cryptocurrency hacks.
• [4:35] - The emotional impact of “just a financial crime,” is staggering.
• [7:38] - You never know who around you is a victim of some of these crimes.
• [8:18] - Erin describes the experience of being convinced to click a link herself.
• [10:32] - Scammers will think about different things that would trigger someone into clicking a link.
• [13:40] - Pig butchering involves building trust with a victim and showing them a false plush lifestyle.
• [16:08] - A red flag is a text or social media message you may receive that seems misdirected or to a wrong number.
• [19:21] - It feels like the right thing to do when we feel the need to respond to the scammer with a “you’ve got the wrong number,” but that’s how they start a conversation.
• [22:29] - In many cases, scammers bulk text a massive amount of phone numbers. But some people are specifically targeted on social media.
• [24:23] - Covid really accelerated this type of scam due to loneliness.
• [25:40] - A misconception is that these scams target the elderly. But it is not based on age at all.
• [27:03] - Unfortunately, law enforcement is not set up to be able to handle this type of crime.
• [28:18] - Erin explains that law enforcement doesn’t tend to always lead with empathy when this type of crime is reported.
• [30:12] - It is important to report the crime to local law enforcement, but there are other places that the crime can be reported to in addition.
• [32:50] - Victims should be able to speak to a detective.
• [34:33] - Victims should be very wary of third party recovery programs.
• [37:26] - On the other side of things, a scammer could also be a victim of human trafficking and being forced to scam others.
• [39:40] - Scams are being operated on a massive scale and have a front of a corporate business.
• [41:14] - Initially, most of the cases seemed to have money moved out of the country. However, recently scammers have been found to be operating in the US.
• [44:04] - There is some hope and opportunities in recent months where money laundering has been intercepted.
• [46:41] - Progress in education and advocating for less victim shaming is moving in the right direction.

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Sometimes people only share their stories after they’ve gone through a challenging time. But it’s also important to learn from those in the middle of a scam to learn how people are manipulated and how vulnerable our loved ones can really be.

Today’s guest is Terri Proctor. Terri’s elderly mother has been scammed by romance scammers over the last three years. In trying to get help from different recommended services, she realized that no one was really interested in helping. She started the non-profit Stop Elderly Scams to educate and bring awareness to the community.

• [0:53] - Terri shares her background and how she was thrown into her situation. Her experience led her to founding a non-profit.
• [2:28] - Over the course of a year, Terri’s mother lost about $100,000 to a romance scammer.
• [3:30] - Terri’s mother was not treated like a victim. She was treated as a willing participant.
• [6:01] - There were many reasons why Terri’s mother was vulnerable to manipulation, including loneliness.
• [8:23] - It is sad to see the comments online about victims of scams.
• [10:23] - The shame and embarrassment a lot of victims feel causes them to not talk about the problem or seek help.
• [11:57] - In the beginning, Terri admits that she had a lot of anger and frustration that was also focused on her mother. It is better to listen and try to reason.
• [14:54] - Terri’s mother was stopped by a store manager from buying more gift cards. The manager has expressed concern that she is not the only one.
• [16:51] - Part of the vulnerability of Terri’s mother is loneliness.
• [18:47] - Other types of scams tend to target the elderly. It is hard to keep up.
• [24:08] - How can we help our loved ones without taking away their independence?
• [26:21] - People should feel free to talk about these issues. Terri shares how her non-profit is helping educate and make a difference.
• [28:46] - It is challenging to find the balance in helping loved ones and making sure they have their autonomy.
• [29:59] - When you think you’ve learned about one thing or one scam, another problem pops up.

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Regulators have to invest a considerable amount of time in keeping legislation and policy up to date regarding technology and AI, but it’s not easy. We need floor debates, not for sound bytes or for political gain, but to move policy forward.

Today’s guest is Bruce Schneier. Bruce is an internationally renowned security technologist called The Security Guru by The Economist. He is the author of over a dozen books including his latest, A Hacker’s Mind. He has testified before Congress, is a frequent guest on television and radio, has served on several government committees, and is regularly quoted in the press. He is a fellow at the Berkman-Klein Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University, a lecturer in Public Policy at Harvard Kennedy School, a board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation and AccessNow, and an advisory board member of EPIC and VerifiedVoting.org.

• [1:40] - Bruce shares what he teaches at Harvard and the current interest in policy.
• [4:27] - The notion that tech can’t be regulated has been very harmful.
• [6:00] - Typically, the United States doesn’t regulate much in tech. Most regulation has come from Europe.
• [7:52] - AI is a power magnification tool. Will the uses empower the already powerful or democratize power?
• [9:16] - Bruce describes loopholes and how AI as a power magnification tool can mean something different in different situations.
• [12:06] - It will be interesting to watch AI begin to do human cognitive tasks because they will do them differently.
• [13:58] - Bruce explains how AI collaboration can be a real benefit.
• [16:17] - Like every text writer, AI is going to become a collaborative tool. What does this mean for writing legislation?
• [17:18] - AI can write more complex and detailed laws than humans can.
• [21:27] - AI regulation will be skewed towards corporations. Bruce explains how public AI could work.
• [23:46] - Will AI help the defender or the attacker more?
• [26:19] - AI can be good against legacy, but we need some sort of infrastructure.
• [29:27] - There’s going to be a need for proof of humanity.
• [32:29] - It is hard to know what people can do to help move regulation along. Ultimately, it is a political issue.

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