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In our previous episode (Ep. 36), Tim Shriver America’s widening political and social divides are, surprisingly, not due to our differences. “We’ve always had differences,” he says, “Contempt is the problem.” Shriver explains why treating others with dignity is more likely to produce the results we want and why contempt usually does the opposite. He and his colleagues created the Dignity Index to help us recognize the various ways we can regard our adversaries—either with contempt or with dignity.

In the current episode, Futernick interviews four college students who are ambassadors for Students for Dignity, an organization with over 25 chapters on college campuses across the county. Preston Brightwell, the founder of this organization, also participates. Each student explains how he or she uses the Dignity Index to assess their interactions and help others see the virtues of dignity over contempt.

Key questions addressed in this conversation:

• Why did you choose to get involved with Student for Dignity?
• How have you experienced contempt or been contemptuous yourself?
• What fuels contempt (adult models, social media)?
• What pushback do you get from other students who may be reluctant to treat their adversaries with dignity?
• What can students do if they want to get involved?

Notable Quotes

I feel like there are moments where we push for a world of dignity, but we don't hold friends accountable when they're being contemptuous. And it's the level at which when you're throwing contempt at me or my loved ones, I will react, but when my loved ones throw contempt at you, I'm going to turn a blind eye. - Iradukunda Manikandan

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I would say what frequently fuels contempt is that it's much easier. It gives you that spike of adrenaline. You tend to build your in-group because the minute that you say something fiery on social media, everyone who agrees with you is like, YEAH! And then you feel seen. It's much less interesting to say, “I don't agree with that.” And no one watches that on TikTok. - Alexa Merril

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I really think contempt breeds contempt. When our dignity is violated, it's easy and almost justified to respond with contempt. And so it's just contempt, contempt, contempt. And somebody has to be the one to take a step back and say, “I am going to respond with dignity.” - David Witt

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Tim Shriver is a member of the Kennedy family, Chairman of Special Olympics International, co-founder of UNITE, and a former teacher. In this wide-ranging conversation with host Ken Futernick, Shriver describes a tool he co-created called the Dignity Index, and he describes how educators are using it to address our widening political and social divides. “We built it because there's an issue in our culture, in our families, in our homes, and in our schools that we haven't paid that much attention to. And the issue is how we treat each other when we disagree.” The Index is a framework that allows students (and politicians and educators) to examine their interactions, with the goal of reducing contempt and promoting a sense of dignity toward others. “Most people think the problem is that we have such [great] differences in our country. Our view is that's not a problem,” Shriver says. “We've always had differences…Difference is not the problem…Contempt is the problem.”

How Educators Are Using the Index

Shriver says students in history classes are using the Index to score speeches from historical figures like Abraham Lincoln, William Jennings Bryan, Harriet Tubman, and Martin Luther King Jr. “Students learn how to dissect the rhetoric in our political history, looking for whether this particular figure used dignity or contempt. And, we have other elementary school teachers who are creating codes of conduct using the Index. A school district in the Salt Lake City School District,” Shriver says, “has created what they call the five and up rule.” When students disagree, teachers help students use language in the upper half of the index (i.e., levels 5-8) - language that views others with dignity rather than contempt.

Shriver says his organization has received requests from school boards asking for help with people who are “fired up and angry” over one issue or another. They want to know how to get them to use dignity language rather than dehumanizing and humiliating people with different perspectives.

Isn’t Contemp Warranted at Times?

Reflecting on an objection some might have to this approach, Ken asks, “Aren’t there some acts and some people who just aren’t dignified themselves, whose acts are awful. How can you hold this belief about a person who commits heinous acts or has really awful political views that hurt people… How can you (or should you) still feel a sense of dignity towards that person or those actions?”

The problem, Shriver says, is that the alternative, contempt, “makes an enemy for your cause.” Whether the target of one’s contempt is a politician or another student, the outcome is always the same. That person’s views and actions are more, not less, likely to persist. What makes matters worse, Shriver says, is that contempt in today’s culture has become “glorified and rewarded, and it’s making all of us less happy and less healthy.”

Schools Play a Vital Role

Shriver concludes with this inspiring reflection on educators' critical role in holding our nation together. “I started my career as a teacher. When I look to the institutions of this nation, and I look to who and where are people who know that everybody deserves a chance, where are the people who know that hope and development are the actual work of community building and nation building? Where are the people who trust that new ideas can emerge? It's schools.”

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School mission statements across the county commonly included language about Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. DEI training for educators was also common. But that’s changed in recent years as school culture wars erupted around the books students have access to: how students learn about history, race, and gender identity, and anything that smacks of “woke” ideology. DEI, as perceived by its advocates, is a unifying concept, but because a growing segment of the population perceives it as a divisive, alienating, and controversial, school officials in many districts have stricken DEI language from their mission statements. Many have eliminated DEI personnel positions and the trainings they once offered.

My two guests, Channa Pitt and Dennis DiMaggio, both with extensive experience with DEI programs, weigh in on the causes of the backlash, and they offer concrete ideas that could lessen the resistance to DEI to the point where educators, parents, and students would embrace it. The key, they say, is to shift away top-down training from DEI “experts,” to authentic and safe engagement where individual identities are not placed in neat categories (e.g., oppressor and “oppressed” or “privileged” and “victims”). They suggest focusing on personal narratives and memoirs to build empathy and understanding across differences, focusing on shared values rather than divisive political rhetoric, and engaging in open, curious conversations where people feel heard and respected rather than judged.